Comments 6

Vim is resource effective and great in cases when such features of code autocompletion and others are overkill.


Ok, since I don't think you are going to translate my article about modes being vim's killer
feature, I'll just make a short reply.

Somehow, the post I made so that everybody knew, that there's no need to publish posts like the one I'm commenting right now, lead to someone publishing the post.

I just can't understand, how author could see things I didn't put there.

For example:

You may have read a recent article suggesting that vim is great unlike IDEs, because of their allegedly low typing speed.

I didn't say, that vim was better, I just said, what it's main feature was.

Also, I didn't say, that IDE is not great. Here's what I wrote:

IDE make programmers job so much easier, that if you're not using it, you probably have a lot ot explain

And of course I didn't say, that IDE makes you type slowly. I mean, I explicitly wrote, that it's not about speed at all:

I don't want to say, that everything is faster, if you use modes, I want to say, that vim users find that using modes is more convenient and pleasant.

How could anyone miss that?

So, those things, which author considered to be main points on my post, actually weren't there. And then, author states his opinion on vim, which is almost exactly the same as in the post he criticizes.

Here's my text:

Also, you find out that people actually use vim to write code. I mean, it's 21 century you can download Visual Studio, Intellij Idea or, god forbid, Eclipse any moment you want, and they use vim. On their on volition.

And here's what author wrote:

vim can be great for new languages that have not yet been played around with by JetBrains. Writing custom plugins is easier for vim (but in 99% of cases you won’t need them with an adequate IDE). Perhaps, it is more convenient for editing long texts. But that is irrelevant for standard industrial coding!

So the hypothetical programmer from my post, thinks the same as author. And my post was meant to explain guys like that, why modes were vim's killer feature. Regrettably, I see, that I have failed.

And then author practically recites Dr. Watson from the picture. Yes, my post has picture of Dr. Watson, saying, that he can't understand why people would use vim to code )).

Vim can be turned into a kind of IDE by installing plugins and learning hotkeys to operate those plugins

It can indeed, but why would anyone bother?

Author informs us, that IDEs have same features vim has, but IDEs are more convenient.

I explicitly wrote, that modes are more convenient for vim users, but author didn't pay any attention.

Because if something was inconvenient for the author, that couldn't possibly be convenient for anyone else, right?

So, the post should've been named — How modes could be vim's killer feature? I don't like them!. That would explain a lot.

Seriously, author starts enumerating features IDEs have, even though I explicitly wrote, that it's wrong to say, that vimmers cope with modes, because vim has a lot of features. It's more correct to say, that vim users add features to vim, so that they could continue using modes.

Maybe he didn't believe me, it's hard to say.

In the end author wrote:

I am in no way a vim guru, so I may have missed some key aspects.

Yeah, you have missed MOST of the text, you're replying to.

Also, I'd like to answer the question author asks.

Yes! Seriously! Modes are vim's killer feature! Yes, people use vim it has modes! Yes, modal editors are comfortable to use for a lot of people! Really!

1. What is the point of creating a topic in English as a follow-up for a topic in Russian? The OP is a native Russian speaker, and you are, and most of the expected commenters are. Nevertheless we are forced to communicate in English here. I feel like I found myself in an asylum.

2. You are making a pretty stereotypic mistake <for Vim critics>, which is, you think that a set of some IDE's *hotkeys*, however complete/comprehensive it is, is conceptually the same as Vim's modality capabilities. (You also drag code snippets and autocompletion into discussion for no reason — btw vim also has those.)
Vim modality is NOT just an existence of a mode consisting only of hotkeys. As a bare minimum, Vim's <N> mode is a command system that allows command chaining and applying commands to dynamically constructed targets (consider «da(»). I doubt Idea's hotkeys can simulate that. Vim modality is a huge world, and one-letter hotkeys — and even the [text objects]( (N lines, paragraphs) you are briefly mentioning are only a tip of the iceberg. Any comment on Vim macros? :s capabilities? Hotkey/command history capabilities? This is, in fact, another mistake typical for Vim critics: their Vim knowledge and <N> knowledge rarely stretches beyond hjkl and basic positioning/editing commands (which they usually pick as targets for critics, thinking they are targeting the complete «vim way»). The most advanced of those learn text objects, substitution, and ex commands, and think they *finally* mastered vim and are ready to make unbiased judgements. (Not even close.)

3. Regarding a month-long training: Some dev tools are subject to months and years long study. Most people are perfectly ok with spending years for mastering e.g. C++ or networking; mastering a CUSTOMIZABLE personal toolchain (at least, customizable to the extent of programmable text editors like Vim, Emacs or Sublime, not of out-of-the-box-ready IDEs; not even speaking of PIM and productivity tools) is an equally hard task.
My bad, I missed the «translation» tag. This topic has a (pretty old) Russian original counterpart and I now remember commenting on it earlier.

A business idea for TM: autogenerate automated Russian->English translation for all the past articles. English speakers should feel the same pain as us readers of Aliexpress automated translations.
Only those users with full accounts are able to leave comments. , please.