Comments 6
Java… Java… Java… Java.
Как будто другого нет?
Я думаю тут приведут достаточно примеров когда Java не подойдет.
Как будто другого нет?
Я думаю тут приведут достаточно примеров когда Java не подойдет.
Дело даже не в этом… При том что я сам на этом работаю, но вот это вот все:
>Мы считаем, что спрос на J2EE будет стремительно расти ближайшие годы.
Это мягко говоря, не факт. И это надо аргументировать. Потому что найдется много других людей, которые считают ровно наоборот. И даже лично я, будучи оптимистом по отношению к JavaEE как технологии, не вижу никаких причин для «стремительного роста» в ближайшие годы. В лучшем случае — спрос не будет падать.
Эксперты, такие эксперты…
>Мы считаем, что спрос на J2EE будет стремительно расти ближайшие годы.
Это мягко говоря, не факт. И это надо аргументировать. Потому что найдется много других людей, которые считают ровно наоборот. И даже лично я, будучи оптимистом по отношению к JavaEE как технологии, не вижу никаких причин для «стремительного роста» в ближайшие годы. В лучшем случае — спрос не будет падать.
Эксперты, такие эксперты…
Буквально сегодня имел дело с Crossover — пытался откликнуться на вакансию frontend-разработчика в сам Crossover.
По итогам написал им такой отзыв:
По итогам написал им такой отзыв:
Скрытый текст
As a developer looking for a job, I found the experience using your hiring platform unsatisfactory.
First of all, the fully automated hiring process didn't give me a chance to talk to a real person and ask questions (automated emails that deceitfully pretend to be personal don't count). I fought through forms and automated trials for hours — only to find out that the job isn't what I'm looking for. This would be resolved immediately if a real person read my cover letter, or a Skype message, or an email from me, or my CV, or my website. Instead, it took me hours of personal time to get up to a point where I can't even proceed: because the requirement of a test assignment was to use Angular/React/Backbone while I'm specializing in Ember.
The choice of frameworks is weird: React and Angular 2 are modern frameworks, while Angular 1 and Backbone are hopelessly outdated. Ember, my weapon of choice, is a modern framework, one of the big three, — and I'm calmly confident that I would fulfill the test assignment faster and better than competitors using other frameworks — yet it was explicitly stated that I'd be disqualified if I used a framework not on that list of four options.
If I knew that beforehand, I would of course never waste several hours of my life on you.
The test assignment in question is exactly the same assignment that I've seen when applying to TopTal three years ago. My application back then didn't succeed because the TopTal's manager assigned to me was fired in the middle of my application without me being notified.
Secondly, the assignment itself is ridiculously large. Though it technically can be completed in the recommended ten hours — ten hours of extreme concentration, properly implementing all the requirements with due care and attention is at least a week-long project, while the limit is three days.
I find it offensive that you demand that your candidates complete such an enormous amount of work merely to deserve that an employee on your side condescends to take a glance at the job application. Though I'm not suspecting you to use your candidates as free labor, this is a «one-way street» situation to the extreme.
Thirdly, the quiz that preceded the test assignment is simply humiliating. It demands knowledge of obsolete technologies that haven't been used in frontend development for many years. If your employees face the problems described in the quiz in their daily work at Crossover, then no self-respecting developer would want to work for you. But more likely, you just lack the understanding of the field you're evaluating candidates in. You bough this quiz somewhere and threw it in between talented candidates and your unsuspecting dev team.
Your hiring reality is completely detached from what a development team actually needs from a new teammate. It's like two separate worlds: you in your HR bubble are completely clueless what both parties of the hiring process actually need in their programming reality — and, worst of all, you just don't care.
You do this terrible thing to your own candidates and dev teams; and you do the same to employees and dev teams of your clients, leading them into believing that it's how it should be.
Finally, you force your candidates to fill a copy of their resume into your system. That's an extremely slow and useless process. I've already got a nicely structured CV, yet I'm neither able to attach it, nor paste it as text, nor provide a link to the live CV on my personal website. I'm forced to reproduce it bit by bit, using the mouse pointer to do every tiny step, fill out every field, every tag, every goddam' date with to-day precision.
I sincerely hope that web services like Crossover are soon all out of business, so that candidates are no longer required to repeat this painfully slow routine for every single job application. Don't say that I wouldn't have to do it again — I've never seen two separate job offers use the same third-party job application service.
Luckily, many companies, whose dev teams are both happy and productive, have them communicate with candidates directly. They accept existing CVs/websites, they have reasonable requirements. By spending like 120 seconds per candidate, the hiring party can save hours of personal time for each of those candidates.
And of course there are web services that actually help both parties to achieve positive result as quickly and efficiently as possible. You're not one of them.
Hello Andrey,
I am sorry o see that your experience with us was not that satisfying. Until at some point we do have an automated system for contacting candidates and to explain all the steps that you need to complete to qualify for interview. Regarding the steps, thank you for the feedback, i will make sure you forward it to the appropriate departments so that we can update the questionnaire. Regarding the project assignment, we are looking for candidates who have experience in these specific fields, fields that are mentioned exactly in the Job Description. For one who masters then it is possible to complete it within the 10 hour time frame.
I am also sorry to hear that you wish for companies like to us to disappear, we are currently offering full time remote positions for close to 2000 candidates from over 85 different countries and the clients that currently decide to work with us are Fortune 1000 and the list of candidates is growing.
From what i can see you have started your project evaluation, if you are still interested in a position with us keep track of your time, you will have the total of 3 days to finish and upload your work to us.
Hey Alex. I'm sorry for saying that, I don't want your business to fail.
It's just I was really pissed off by being taken through all this heartless job application machinery and wasting hours of my time for nothing. All I meant is that I don't want this to happen to other developers, while your company is actively working in that direction.
Here's how I think an ideal job application form looks like, both from employer's and employee's perspective: https://fitzdares.com/careers/ember
Everything else is an obstacle between the candidate and the team. Your routine is a frigging death trap obstacle course.
Please note that there are web services that let employers manage candidates without introducing any obstacles. They try to understand what are the actual priorities of both candidates and teams. Your web service only cares for what HR princelings need.
First of all, the fully automated hiring process didn't give me a chance to talk to a real person and ask questions (automated emails that deceitfully pretend to be personal don't count). I fought through forms and automated trials for hours — only to find out that the job isn't what I'm looking for. This would be resolved immediately if a real person read my cover letter, or a Skype message, or an email from me, or my CV, or my website. Instead, it took me hours of personal time to get up to a point where I can't even proceed: because the requirement of a test assignment was to use Angular/React/Backbone while I'm specializing in Ember.
The choice of frameworks is weird: React and Angular 2 are modern frameworks, while Angular 1 and Backbone are hopelessly outdated. Ember, my weapon of choice, is a modern framework, one of the big three, — and I'm calmly confident that I would fulfill the test assignment faster and better than competitors using other frameworks — yet it was explicitly stated that I'd be disqualified if I used a framework not on that list of four options.
If I knew that beforehand, I would of course never waste several hours of my life on you.
The test assignment in question is exactly the same assignment that I've seen when applying to TopTal three years ago. My application back then didn't succeed because the TopTal's manager assigned to me was fired in the middle of my application without me being notified.
Secondly, the assignment itself is ridiculously large. Though it technically can be completed in the recommended ten hours — ten hours of extreme concentration, properly implementing all the requirements with due care and attention is at least a week-long project, while the limit is three days.
I find it offensive that you demand that your candidates complete such an enormous amount of work merely to deserve that an employee on your side condescends to take a glance at the job application. Though I'm not suspecting you to use your candidates as free labor, this is a «one-way street» situation to the extreme.
Thirdly, the quiz that preceded the test assignment is simply humiliating. It demands knowledge of obsolete technologies that haven't been used in frontend development for many years. If your employees face the problems described in the quiz in their daily work at Crossover, then no self-respecting developer would want to work for you. But more likely, you just lack the understanding of the field you're evaluating candidates in. You bough this quiz somewhere and threw it in between talented candidates and your unsuspecting dev team.
Your hiring reality is completely detached from what a development team actually needs from a new teammate. It's like two separate worlds: you in your HR bubble are completely clueless what both parties of the hiring process actually need in their programming reality — and, worst of all, you just don't care.
You do this terrible thing to your own candidates and dev teams; and you do the same to employees and dev teams of your clients, leading them into believing that it's how it should be.
Finally, you force your candidates to fill a copy of their resume into your system. That's an extremely slow and useless process. I've already got a nicely structured CV, yet I'm neither able to attach it, nor paste it as text, nor provide a link to the live CV on my personal website. I'm forced to reproduce it bit by bit, using the mouse pointer to do every tiny step, fill out every field, every tag, every goddam' date with to-day precision.
I sincerely hope that web services like Crossover are soon all out of business, so that candidates are no longer required to repeat this painfully slow routine for every single job application. Don't say that I wouldn't have to do it again — I've never seen two separate job offers use the same third-party job application service.
Luckily, many companies, whose dev teams are both happy and productive, have them communicate with candidates directly. They accept existing CVs/websites, they have reasonable requirements. By spending like 120 seconds per candidate, the hiring party can save hours of personal time for each of those candidates.
And of course there are web services that actually help both parties to achieve positive result as quickly and efficiently as possible. You're not one of them.
Hello Andrey,
I am sorry o see that your experience with us was not that satisfying. Until at some point we do have an automated system for contacting candidates and to explain all the steps that you need to complete to qualify for interview. Regarding the steps, thank you for the feedback, i will make sure you forward it to the appropriate departments so that we can update the questionnaire. Regarding the project assignment, we are looking for candidates who have experience in these specific fields, fields that are mentioned exactly in the Job Description. For one who masters then it is possible to complete it within the 10 hour time frame.
I am also sorry to hear that you wish for companies like to us to disappear, we are currently offering full time remote positions for close to 2000 candidates from over 85 different countries and the clients that currently decide to work with us are Fortune 1000 and the list of candidates is growing.
From what i can see you have started your project evaluation, if you are still interested in a position with us keep track of your time, you will have the total of 3 days to finish and upload your work to us.
Hey Alex. I'm sorry for saying that, I don't want your business to fail.
It's just I was really pissed off by being taken through all this heartless job application machinery and wasting hours of my time for nothing. All I meant is that I don't want this to happen to other developers, while your company is actively working in that direction.
Here's how I think an ideal job application form looks like, both from employer's and employee's perspective: https://fitzdares.com/careers/ember
Everything else is an obstacle between the candidate and the team. Your routine is a frigging death trap obstacle course.
Please note that there are web services that let employers manage candidates without introducing any obstacles. They try to understand what are the actual priorities of both candidates and teams. Your web service only cares for what HR princelings need.
Iolmaus, спасибо большое за детальный отзыв, такие помогут быстрее улучшить candidate experience. Как в самой модели есть минусы, так и в нашей реализации, но мы активно работаем над процессом. Также, более четко будем отражать требования в описании вакансии. В частности, тесты и тестовые проекты приводим в большее соответвствие с тем, что приходится делать на работе и укорачиваем. Это происходит быстрее всего по тем типовым вакансиям, которых открыто более 100 штук (например, Java Chief architect). Мне кажется, что эта дискуссия оффтопик, но очень важная, поэтому буду благодарен, если найдете время пообщаться. Если можно, напишите, как с Вами связаться на petr.tarasevich@crossover.com
Подробнее, о том, как Лусиано, Архитектор, руководитель технической оценки Crossover понимает Java Сhief Architect, смотрите статью на LinkedIn. P.s. Если не открывается LinkedIn, для чтения LinkedIn удобно использовать browser extensions, например, вот этот для Chrome.
Проходил процесс проверки на DevOps. Дали разрабатывать Icinga. Сам смысл DevOps'а в том, чтобы испепелять, изничтожать и выжигать такие инструменты. А меня им проверяли. Ну понятно, что я не стал его делать — слишком много ручной работы. Мне как DevOps'у ее делать просто стыдно. Не хотел просто показаться плохим девопсом.
#monitoringsucks
#monitoringsucks
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О значимости Java и откуда появилась сотня вакансий Architects в Crossover